The Lord of the Rings movies would've been much better without this

[Leonard Rhomberg]

The Witch-king of Angmar's flail was comedically oversized.

I loved when he was like no man can kill me and she ripped her helmet off like “I’m no man!” I stood up in the theater and yelled fawwwk yeah

 

[nasty twp]

My biggest problem was twink Legolas being so unstoppable. He was capable in the books but the shield sliding and elephant-thing slaying shit was too much.

What gets me about Orlando Bloom's version is that he acts and looks nothing like the book or the Bakshi version.

Legolas in-text is not the stoical and graceful android Bloom plays. In the books, Legolas is air-headed, clumsy, jockish, outgoing and tactless; a young man (Elf, whatever) from a backwoods lapsed noble family, a semi-rich arriviste hippy idiot who cares only for hunting and sport and frolicking around singing songs rather than learning or politicking or doing anything useful. The type to talk your ear off about nothing, make up a banter chant about the squad, or challenge you to race for no reason. The sort who thinks First Aid means "let's ask the Moon to help🥹”

He's adventurous, well up for a scrap and handy with a bow, yes, but he's no master of the art, or of anything really, certainly not a ninja warrior superhero as Jackson makes out. He's a fighting Prince of Mirkwood on a technicality, yes, but he lacks the deep education, refinement and standing of say the Rivendell line, and it's meant to show.

He's also depicted in the books to be highly impressed (turned on) by the articulation, eloquence and poise of Gimli, who is considerably more noble amongst his people than Legolas is amongst his. Legolas is rather a bimbo tbh and seems to like a man who knows how to build structures, organise a battle manoeuvre, recite poetry or craft moving speeches in a time of war, which Gimli of the book can and does do. Yet the films reversed this dichotomy, because clearly we can't have a beardy middle-aged Welshman who's playing a 4ft creature be the capable, sexy, romantic princely one who we market on the posters, can we.

And can't have a coded-quare couple, either, hence the eye-rolling Gigolas besties/bromance/drinking buddies angle. If even Professor Tolkien of all people could stomach hinting that two of his male characters might have been closer bedfellows than polite society usually allowed, why couldn't New Line Cinema? Thank goodness for the Prancing Ponies fandom and the tumblrinas keeping the flame of truth alive, and I never thought I'd be thankful for them.

Legolas of the original book isn't blond and blue-eyed, either; as in the Bakshi film he ought to look more like Arwen & Elrond (and Bloom's natural hair colour is fucking dark brown anyway, he looked that way in Troy and Kingdom Of Heaven). It's Galadriel's line of Elves who are fair. Presumably they changed Legolas' appearance to differentiate him visually from Viggo's Aragorn, and because it made Orlando look even prettier--not that he needed any help or adjustment--and more broadly marketable to Western teen girls and their curious boyfriends.



Idec anyway, though, I'm a Boromir queen through and through. He was the youngest of the Fellowship, yet the toughest and most principled. He had fewer vital years than the others of the Fellowship in which to accomplish so much more for his beleaguered people, except perhaps Frodo. Despite his moral wobble, he's the platonic ideal of a brother, Captain and friend.

Boromir is one of a very short list of Middle-Earth denizens who successfully resisted the Ring; interestingly, one of the only correct and true things that Denethor of the books & films says is that the War of the Ring marks the end of Gondor & Middle Earth as they know it, and the only man he knows strong enough not to succumb to its power is Boromir (though he should have mentioned Faramir too)

Boromir also had the most tragic, interesting face-heel-face turn in the entire saga, and an iconic death scene. His sacrifice haunts the narrative as a critical life-changing moment for many characters, though it happens early on, and it's a fairly simple and bathetic end.

He's such a profound character that to be the hero he doesn't have to walk into a volcano, or know elite wizardry or do any video-game stunts. He just decides to give his life for two defenseless innocents because he's a good man, and so it's natural for him that he shall die as he lived, protecting those who can't protect themselves--what legacy could be more manful and kingly than that?

He didn't even want to go to Elrond's council, or have any truck with the Ring or the Fellowship in the first place, plus he had scepticism that they could make it to Mordor and finish the job, yet he gave his life for this motley band anyway, just because they needed him.

And though he feared Isildur's Bane, and felt himself a lesser leader, he turned out to be greater a man than Isildur—for denying the Ring's power and for dying of arrow-piercing not trying to seize the Ring (as Isildur did), but trying to keep it out of dangerous hands and hasten its destruction. Ultimately, Boromir is a pragmatic compassionate leader who wanted disarmament and a fair playing field.

I do not love the sword for its sharpness; the arrow for its swiftness; nor the soldier for his glory. I only love for what they can defend--translation of the Sindarin Lament for Boromir's death. Says it all. Aragorn & Legolas' lament for Boromir's death is my favourite lyric in all the books, the Tolkien Ensemble set it in a lovely way. And Boromir's Riddle stands out, too, especially the late Christopher Lee's reading.

 

[Kinderman]

@Curator has exposed our faggotry. Seriously, what are we doing?!!

There’s nothing wrong with talking Tolkien.

Fuck that faggot Tom bombadil

No fuckin way. If there’s ever a truly faithful adaptation, I’d love to see Tom and the barrow-wights. Probably have to be a series though.

 

[RedHeadpw2]

There’s nothing wrong with talking Tolkien.


No fuckin way. If there’s ever a truly faithful adaptation, I’d love to see Tom and the barrow-wights. Probably have to be a series though.

Can you summarize the barrow-wright thing for some of us, and why it interests you?

 

[Kinderman]

Can you summarize the barrow-wright thing for some of us, and why it interests you?

Yes. After the hobbits leave Tom Bombadil’s house, they get lost and end up being taken by a barrow-wight. These are reanimated bones filled with evil spirits by the Witch-king of Angmar (Lord of the Nazgûl) sent to keep the Dúnedain from coming back to that area. Anyway, Tom rescues them from the wight at daybreak.

I’d love to see it just because it’s something that goes a little deeper in the mythology. The Witch-king placed them there hundreds of years before, and it’d be great to see stuff that references some more of the lore about the past that’s explained further in tons of other books.

 

[RedHeadpw2]

Yes. After the hobbits leave Tom Bombadil’s house, they get lost and end up being taken by a barrow-wight. These are reanimated bones filled with evil spirits by the Witch-king of Angmar (Lord of the Nazgûl) sent to keep the Dúnedain from coming back to that area. Anyway, Tom rescues them from the wight at daybreak.

I’d love to see it just because it’s something that goes a little deeper in the mythology. The Witch-king placed them there hundreds of years before, and it’d be great to see stuff that references some more of the lore about the past that’s explained further in tons of other books.

Thanks. I really should've read this back in the 90s.

 

[HeyItsVos]

Legolas of the original book isn't blond and blue-eyed, either; as in the Bakshi film he ought to look more like Arwen & Elrond (and Bloom's natural hair colour is fucking dark brown anyway, he looked that way in Troy and Kingdom Of Heaven). It's Galadriel's line of Elves who are fair. Presumably they changed Legolas' appearance to differentiate him visually from Viggo's Aragorn

In preproduction, they actually tested both brunette and blonde wigs on Bloom. They elected to go the blonde route. I think partly because of the contrast with Aragorn, like you said, and because it does just make his character more striking in appearance.

I don’t think it’s actually confirmed what color hair Legolas has in the books. His father is clearly described as blonde like Galadriel. He’s accurate enough looking in the Hobbit films. We don’t know Legolas’ mom’s lineage. Tolkien never shared. To further add to the confusion. If you ever look at Tolkien-approved art of Legolas, he’s wearing a hood.

 

[LiberalPussy]

I hate how they’re milking Tolkien now like it’s just marvel Consoomer dreck now. We have that Amazon show, then an anime. I also hear New Line is dragging Ian McAllen back to play Gandalf again in a Gollum movie.

 

[Chive Turkey]

Thanks. I really should've read this back in the 90s.

Look up the audiobooks read by Phil Dragash, they should be freely available on Youtube, Spotify, etc. They're great because they have the music from the movies for ambience and the guy does a damn good impression of all the actor's voices.

The books can be a bit daunting because of all the exposition and songs and poems. Tolkien wasn't a pulp novelist after all, but a philologist. Hearing them spoken out loud makes it all a lot more digestible and is strangely appropriate, seeing as Tolkien based his mythology on oral traditions that were only written down afterwards.

 

[whyarewedoingthisagain_mybb]

I thought Gimli was alright in the first movie, a little too goofy in the second one, and I don’t really remember him doing much in the third. I don’t have a problem with Merry and Pippin being comic relief. That was kind of their purpose. And they both mellowed out a lot by the third one when they had gone through some shit.

My biggest problem was twink Legolas being so unstoppable. He was capable in the books but the shield sliding and elephant-thing slaying shit was too much.

I don't think theres a single scene where Legolas gets his ass kicked. He exists as the cool guy to do cool guy things during the action parts. When the rest of the elves show up at helms deep and do their whimsical elf shit in unison you think damn these guys mean business. Then an orc jumps up and takes out 10 of them in one swipe. What a bunch of queers. These elite units are cannon fodder but Legolas is John Rambo of the elves? Even Gandalf took a punch.

 

[Dog Eater]

The comedic relief from the Hobbits makes more sense than from a dwarf. Either way you're right there was entirely too much comedic relief in the movies, it added nothing.

It’s a bit more balanced in the directors cut because it’s more sparse.

songs and poems

I like the songs and poems.

 

[PickleRickle]

Yes. After the hobbits leave Tom Bombadil’s house, they get lost and end up being taken by a barrow-wight. These are reanimated bones filled with evil spirits by the Witch-king of Angmar (Lord of the Nazgûl) sent to keep the Dúnedain from coming back to that area. Anyway, Tom rescues them from the wight at daybreak.

I’d love to see it just because it’s something that goes a little deeper in the mythology. The Witch-king placed them there hundreds of years before, and it’d be great to see stuff that references some more of the lore about the past that’s explained further in tons of other books.

This has always been my favorite sub-plot in the book. I need to re-read them, man. I think I was in fawkin 8th grade when I last read the trilogy.

 

[nasty twp]

Merry and Pippin. Two little cutesy faggots hijacking every potentially scary or tense scene they're in.

The actors are basically the same cheeky unserious munchkins in real life, one suspects there wasn't much acting involved.

I don’t think it’s actually confirmed what color hair Legolas has in the books. His father is clearly described as blonde like Galadriel. He’s accurate enough looking in the Hobbit films. We don’t know Legolas’ mom’s lineage. Tolkien never shared. To further add to the confusion. If you ever look at Tolkien-approved art of Legolas, he’s wearing a hood.

Thank you for the correction brotherman, been a while since I read the books so I must be misremembering.

Still, I don't see why--apart from marketing, as you say--Legolas needed to be blond, especially with all the other fair Elves wandering around the films, not just Galadriel. A young Orlando Bloom looked elfin and ethereal and lovely enough starring in Troy as doomed glossy brunette princess Paris, didn't he?

Curiously, Bloom initially auditioned and got a callback for Faramir, at first, until Dame Fran Walsh suggested him for Legolas.

 

[Curator]

More on how Gimli got done dirty. During the hobbit hunt in The Two Towers, much comedy is attempted at his expence. He wobbles after Aragorn and Legolas, panting, squirming, complaining and making up excuses. It's almost as if he slows them down. Meanwhile, what are dwarves most known for in the books? Fucking endurance. Gimli would have no problem keeping up with those guys in any race.

One thing the movies did right was to exclude Tom Bombadil. If you compare the first half of Fellowship (book) to the rest of the trilogy, you'll notice the tone is different to the degree that it becomes out of place. It even has a talking fox! Initially, Fellowship was obviously intended as yet another whimsical and episodical children's book like The Hobbit, but around Rivendell, Tolkien decided to make it more mature and incorporate the story into his grander legendarium. By that point however, it was too late to revise the first half, and so it got left in there.

 

[Mick_Mickerson]

All three movies suck. They are for dweebs

That's what I figured, so I never watched them. Why did you devote nine hours of your life to watching them?

Once every couple years, though, I contemplate watching one to see all the hype. Can you watch them standalone and enjoy them if you didn't read the books?

 

[LiberalPussy]

That's what I figured, so I never watched them. Why did you devote nine hours of your life to watching them?

Once every couple years, though, I contemplate watching one to see all the hype. Can you watch them standalone and enjoy them if you didn't read the books?

They work well enough as standalone movies I think.

 

[LingerLonger]

That's what I figured, so I never watched them. Why did you devote nine hours of your life to watching them?

I saw them in theaters with friends for social reasons. I can't think of a reason to ever watch them again though.

Once every couple years, though, I contemplate watching one to see all the hype. Can you watch them standalone and enjoy them if you didn't read the books?

Do you like PG level jokes thrown in during battle sequences? Feminism and girl power moments and "slay queen!" garbage every few scenes? Comic relief every single scene? Dated CGI that everyone will scream "is the best of all time"? Then these are perfect movies.

 

[BonnieMcFarlaneMe2]

Gay fucking shit.

 

[nasty twp]

I don’t believe I know any old fans of the books from when they were published, the type of fantasy nerd Sir Christopher Lee was.

Do the day one Tolkienies ever get aggrieved at the newfans who’ve jumped aboard due to the movies & games? Are they like 70s Trekkies, bitter that the estate sold out and became Disneyfied? Or are they just glad for more and more lore & ‘content’, no matter how bad?

 

[LiberalPussy]

I don’t believe I know any old fans of the books from when they were published, the type of fantasy nerd Sir Christopher Lee was.

Do the day one Tolkienies ever get aggrieved at the newfans who’ve jumped aboard due to the movies & games? Are they like 70s Trekkies, bitter that the estate sold out and became Disneyfied? Or are they just glad for more and more lore & ‘content’, no matter how bad?

Christopher Lee would likely call you a faggot for caring.